|
|
|
All about Reno...Chapter1: Carpentry
Last Post 09 Feb 2012 12:06 PM by . 224 Replies.
|
Sort:
|
jaskel
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1176
 |
| 01 Aug 2009 09:50 PM |
|
I think I need to get myself started on this before I'm become too lazy or too busy to push myself on it. Why this thread first was that I feel in all reno, carpentry work is the most profitable to all ID/contractor...moreover now lots of flat or condo already done up the flooring or tiles so most house owners wont be doing it.
First must intro all type of wood used for the carpentry work so that everyone have a better understanding of what they are paying for.
Over the years or months, I had learned quite a bit of wood related knowledge but far from an expert but I still think maybe I could share some knowledge to benefit anyone who is interested.
I may not be 100% right, but u can use this as a guide.
|
|
|
|
|
wallz
I'm a toddler Shroomy!
Posts:179
|
| 01 Aug 2009 09:57 PM |
|
Hi jaskel,
thanks in advance for sharing your valuable knowledge!
|
|
|
|
|
jaskel
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1176
|
| 01 Aug 2009 09:57 PM |
|
‘Wood’ material use in furniture:
1: Solid wood – refer to real wood that chop down from tree (wood log), that cut to plank & timber. Example: Teak wood(use in Balinese furniture & good in outdoor & ship/boat cause of good withstand to weather & moisture), oak wood(some make it to kitchen cabinet but easily cost around 15k in local), cherry wood, pine wood(soft wood) etc etc.
Solid wood is expensive & require high skill to make into furniture cause wood move (shrink & expand according to humidity), warp, tear etc & it is expensive.
That’s why we mostly use ply wood nowadays for cabinet. As for chair, bench, & some table we still use real wood for its strength.
If u thinks that all ur cabinet is making with ply wood… think again. Don’t forget there’s ‘chipboard’ & MDF (medium density fiberboard).
|
|
|
|
|
Bigfatfish
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1191
|
| 01 Aug 2009 10:00 PM |
|
kitchen top, what do u think of bamboo jaskel? |
|
|
|
|
jaskel
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1176
|
| 01 Aug 2009 10:01 PM |
|
2. Particle board, or particleboard, (or chipboard)
Poorest quality among ply wood & MDF. Particleboard is a composite material.
Particleboard is cheaper, denser and more uniform than conventional wood and plywood and is substituted for them when appearance and strength are less important than cost. However, particleboard can be made more attractive by painting or the use of wood veneers that are glued onto surfaces that will be visible. Though it is denser than conventional wood, it is the lightest and weakest type of fiberboard, except for insulation board. Medium-density fibreboard and hardboard, also called high-density fiberboard, are stronger and denser than particleboard.
A major disadvantage of particleboard is that it is very prone to expansion and discoloration due to moisture, particularly when it is not covered with paint or another sealer. Therefore, it is rarely used outdoors or places that have high levels of moisture, with the exception of some bathrooms, kitchens and laundries, where it is commonly used as an underlayment beneath a continuous sheet of vinyl floor covering. In such an installation the edges must be properly covered upward against the wall and joints and non-covered edges must be properly sealed against moisture penetration. A higher quality material not subject to expansion is underlayment-grade plywood, which is constructed without interior voids in its layers to better resist the high local pressure from objects such as stiletto heels.
 
|
|
|
|
|
jaskel
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1176
|
| 01 Aug 2009 10:07 PM |
|
3. Oriented strand board OSB
OSB is an engineered wood product formed by layering strands (flakes) of wood in specific orientations. In appearance it may have a rough and variegated surface with the individual strips (around 2.5 by 15 cm (~1 inch by ~6 inches) each) lying unevenly across each other.
Different qualities in terms of thickness, panel size, strength, and rigidity can be imparted to the OSB by changes in the manufacturing process. OSB panels have no internal gaps or voids, and are water-resistant, although they do require additional membranes to achieve impermeability to water and are not recommended for exterior use. The finished product has similar properties to plywood, but is uniform and cheaper
|
|
|
|
|
jaskel
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1176
|
| 01 Aug 2009 10:52 PM |
|
Posted By Bigfatfish on 01 Aug 2009 10:00:26 PM
kitchen top, what do u think of bamboo jaskel?
I will talk about it later in another thread on kitchen tops. Sorry about it.
And also to other forumers, pls do not reply until I've finished everything so that others can find the information on the first few pages rather than going thru too many pages. Thanks.  |
|
|
|
|
jaskel
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1176
|
| 01 Aug 2009 11:11 PM |
|
4.Medium-density fiberboard (MDF)
MDF is an engineered wood product formed by breaking down softwood into wood fibres, often in a defibrator, combining it with wax and a resin binder, and forming panels by applying high temperature and pressure.[1]
It is made up of separated fibers, (not wood veneers) but can be used as a building material similar in application to plywood. It is much more dense than normal particle board.
Comparison to natural woods
Benefits of MDF:
- Is an excellent substrate for veneers.
- Is becoming an environmentally friendly product.
- Some varieties are less expensive than many natural woods
- Isotropic (no grain), so no tendency to split
- Consistent in strength and size
- Flexible. Can be used for curved walls or surfaces.
- Shapes well.
Drawbacks of MDF:
- Denser than plywood or chipboard (the resins are heavy)
- Swells and breaks when waterlogged
- May warp or expand if not sealed
- Contains urea-formaldehyde which may cause eye and lung irritation when cutting and sanding
- Dulls blades more quickly than many woods
- Though it does not have a grain in the plane of the board, it does have one into the board. Screwing into the edge of a board will generally cause it to split in a fashion similar to delaminating.
- Subject to significant shrinkage in low humidity environments.
- Trim (i.e. baseboards) comes pre-primed but this is insufficient for fine finish painting. Painting with latex paints is difficult due to rapid water absorption. Most finishes appear uneven and nail holes tend to pucker a bit.
Formaldehyde resins are commonly used to bind MDF together, and testing has consistently revealed that MDF products emit formaldehyde and other volatile organic compounds that pose health risks at sufficient concentrations, for at least several months after manufacture.[4] Whether these chronic emissions reach harmful levels in real-world environments is not yet fully determined.
|
|
|
|
|
jaskel
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1176
|
| 02 Aug 2009 12:58 PM |
|
5.Plywood
Plywood is a type of engineered wood made from thin sheets of wood, called plies or wood veneers. The layers are glued together, each with its grain at right angles for greater strength. There are usually an odd number of plies, as the symmetry makes the board less prone to warping. [1]A common reason for using plywood instead of plain wood is its resistance to cracking, shrinkage, twisting/warping, and its general high degree of strength.
So plywood is just plywood, there actually no solid ply or non-solid ply. Just that what people make it into.
Some of the Interior designer/contractor in order to be better deal than other ID will emphasis that they use only solid plywood.
 Softwood plywood made from spruce
Average-quality plywood with show veneer
High-quality concrete pouring plate in plywood
So does that mean if your cabinet, wardrobe, etc.... is not make by solid wood, chipboard, particle board & MDF it should be plywood right?
Wrong!
Recently things had changed (not sure since when it started), carpenter start to replace plywood with blockboard. Now most or half of the custom furniture (eg, doors, feature wall,..etc) are using blockboard instead of plywood cause it is lighter than ply wood hence easier to work with & handling than plywood so it had become the carpenter's choice.
Moreover it is slightly cheaper than plywood. (I don’t think all ID know this, usually the one that know well is the carpenter himself, not the ID.) |
|
|
|
|
jaskel
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1176
|
| 02 Aug 2009 01:19 PM |
|
6. Blockboard
Blockboard is often made from rectangular strips of softwood glued and bonded together under high pressure. These strips are then sandwiched between a wood veneer, such as birch. A single veneer on both sides is known as 3-ply. A double veneer on both sides is called 5-ply. Superior 5 ply is one of the most expensive boards. It has additional veneers ensuring that the grain runs parallel with the core strips.
Blockboard is only suitable for interior work, as the glues used in its construction are not waterproof. It is available in various thicknesses, including 12mm, 18mm, 22mm and 32mm. The boards should be stored flat as blockboard can twist or warp.
When using blockboard to make such things as doors or tables, it is important to ensure that the core runs lengthways in order to achieve maximum strength. Blockboard may be used to make shelves, doors, paneling and partitions.
Blockboard has a good resistance to warping if both sides are left natural or painted/papered. If only one side is finished, then surface tensions build up which will cause the sheet into a bend.
For those who want to know more in depth on the wood, here are some of the websites u can refer to.
|
|
|
|
|
jaskel
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1176
|
| 02 Aug 2009 02:03 PM |
|
According to wikipedia, two or more layer of same or different material layer together is call laminate.
So plywood is also laminate. I will prefer to call those veneer, laminate, Formica etc a Skin.Veneer, laminate and PVC are the most common types of 'skin' u will see for most carpentry. Some will also claim they use 'melamine finish' so what are they actually?
7.Veneer
Veneer is a thin slice of real wood but in the industrial there’s still ‘mainly’ two types of veneer- Real wood veneer & man-made veneer (PVC).
Real wood veneer comes in two forms. One in a roll form (less than 1mm that could cut into strips & later paste at the edge of a said plywood. One comes in 3mm-3.6mm thickness sheet. It is also a 1mm less wood veneer but pre pastes into 3mm ply in factory.
Man-made veneer (Engineered veneer) could be a sheet of printed paper or coloured PVC etc that still could look like wood veneer but less the nice real wood grain. U can see this mostly for interior of the cabinet or drawer. A cheaper alternative compare to real veneer. But better than those white coloured PVC which will change to yellowish over the years and easily getting dirty.
Interior Coloured PVC
|
|
|
|
|
jaskel
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1176
|
| 02 Aug 2009 03:15 PM |
|
8. Laminate (lamination paper)
Laminate sheeting is a versatile surface covering that is used all around the home, particularly in kitchens and bathrooms. It is made in a wide range of colours and also in simulated finishes such as marble, cork and leather. And since the decorative side is impregnated with a melamine resin, it has the advantage of being strong, resilient and heat resistant.
There are a few layers which compress together under heat and high pressure to form a High Pressure Laminate (HPL) which is used in our today's lamination.
A protective, transparent layer of alpha cellulose paper impregnated with melamine resin. This provides resistance to stains, heat, scratches and abrasion.
A printed sheet incorporating decorative colours or designs impregnated with melamine resin. This gives colour-fastness and clarity.
The core layers are kraft paper impregnated with phenolic resin, which provides the finished laminates the required strength, stability and flexibility.
Some other laminate also have a protective top layer which is the wear layer. It's typically constructed from an aluminum oxide clear coat. The coating can range from low to high gloss depending on the consumer's tastes. This layer prevents moisture penetration.
Some Pro and Con on laminate and veneer.
For laminate, it is non-repairable if a scratch or chip does happen. A real wood, whether solid or veneer, can be sanded and sealed.
Veneer is more expensive than laminate, about 30% more but still depend on the type of laminate u choose. Metal type laminate will cost 3 to 4 times more than normal laminate.
Veneer only restricted to wood design only whereas laminate, too many design to choose from until head spinning.
|
|
|
|
|
jaskel
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1176
|
| 02 Aug 2009 03:28 PM |
|
For this...I had completed almost all the carpentry material used in our house..sorry a bit 'lo sho'..next I will post on the average cost price that a carpentry charge to ID/Contractor (which I think interest most home owner) . |
|
|
|
|
jaskel
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1176
|
| 02 Aug 2009 04:08 PM |
|
Usually for condo or landed property the design that is more than 8ft would cost is higher.
Depend on the ceiling ht of 9ft~12ft. Then cost accordingly.
See some pictures to show most 8ft normal prices would have box up top for wardrobe and open
top for kitchen if owner got tight budget.
|
|
|
|
|
jaskel
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1176
|
| 02 Aug 2009 04:10 PM |
|
I had come to the end of this chapter...now will try my best knowledge to answer whatever question or doubt the forumer had. The next chapter will be on Kitchen countertop so do stay tune also. |
|
|
|
|
jaskel
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1176
|
| 02 Aug 2009 09:51 PM |
|
Posted By heydude on 02 Aug 2009 01:26:29 PM
Thanks Jaskel, ur info on types of wood is definitely very helpful. Would like to find out from u on blockboard vs high quality plywood in terms of cost and durability? From ur postings, i guess particle board is the least quality. how do we verify that they are using particle board rather than higher quality plywood?
Ok, for blockboard (softwood) is definitely much cheaper than high quality plywood (hardwood), mainly due to the durability and the strength of the wood itself. Example u can compare it was like using Pine wood(softwood) vs Chengal wood(hardwood).
How to verify? Plywood will be much heavier than particle board. Another way is to see the material yourself before they fixing up. Of course there are also other ways to vertify it and maybe I still not there yet, by pressing and knocking on it.
There reasons why ID/contractors do prefer house owner not to be around during reno. Young ID may not know so much about wood, experience contractor will 'smoke' you around.
|
|
|
|
|
Nyquist
I'm a toddler Shroomy!
Posts:112
|
| 02 Aug 2009 10:12 PM |
|
Posted By jaskel on 02 Aug 2009 03:15:49 PM
8. Laminate (lamination paper)
Laminate sheeting is a versatile surface covering that is used all around the home, particularly in kitchens and bathrooms. It is made in a wide range of colours and also in simulated finishes such as marble, cork and leather. And since the decorative side is impregnated with a melamine resin, it has the advantage of being strong, resilient and heat resistant.
There are a few layers which compress together under heat and high pressure to form a High Pressure Laminate (HPL) which is used in our today's lamination.
A protective, transparent layer of alpha cellulose paper impregnated with melamine resin. This provides resistance to stains, heat, scratches and abrasion.
A printed sheet incorporating decorative colours or designs impregnated with melamine resin. This gives colour-fastness and clarity.
The core layers are kraft paper impregnated with phenolic resin, which provides the finished laminates the required strength, stability and flexibility.
Some other laminate also have a protective top layer which is the wear layer. It's typically constructed from an aluminum oxide clear coat. The coating can range from low to high gloss depending on the consumer's tastes. This layer prevents moisture penetration.
Some Pro and Con on laminate and veneer.
For laminate, it is non-repairable if a scratch or chip does happen. A real wood, whether solid or veneer, can be sanded and sealed.
Veneer is more expensive than laminate, about 30% more but still depend on the type of laminate u choose. Metal type laminate will cost 3 to 4 times more than normal laminate.
Veneer only restricted to wood design only whereas laminate, too many design to choose from until head spinning.
Hi Bro Jaskel,
thanks for setting this up. Regarding the pros and cons of veneer and lamimate, i have smthg to clarify.
I am in favor of veneers for my kitchen cabinet and feature wall but one of the IDs i talk to told warn that the color of natural veneer will fade after numerous cleaning and wiping over time. So not sure if this wld be true..or b.s. he tried to sell to me so i wont choose veneer as he will not charge me extra for it.
|
|
|
|
|
jaskel
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1176
|
| 03 Aug 2009 12:26 AM |
|
Posted By Nyquist on 02 Aug 2009 10:12:34 PM
Posted By jaskel on 02 Aug 2009 03:15:49 PM
thanks for setting this up. Regarding the pros and cons of veneer and, i have smthg to clarify. I am in favor of veneers for my kitchen cabinet and feature wall but one of the IDs i talk to told warn that the color of natural veneer will fade after numerous cleaning and wiping over time. So not sure if this wld be true..or b.s. he tried to sell to me so i wont choose veneer as he will not charge me extra for it.
Hi Bro Nyquist,
I was totally not in favour of veneer for your kitchen cabinet although it is water resistance and has lasting colour which will not fade. But as kitchen area is more prone to acid, alkaline, oil, water...etc, natural veneer is only having lacquer on it so if it worn off, u are now talking about raw wood come into contact with all those substances.Think about it, veneer is only 0.16mm thick, laminate 0.8mm-1mm thick. Moreover, don't think that carpentry will use aircraft/marine type of glue cos it expensive. (From the advise of one of the veneer suppliers which happen to be my neighbour)
As for feature wall...it not an issues at all. Over the times, it may discoloured but that time to come is very long. Even if it do happen, to repair or restain it is very easy (just sand & lacquer or too lazy to do, just lacquer over it) . (From the advise and recommendation of a carpentry boss)
Hope able to help u on it. |
|
|
|
|
flipper
I'm a young adult Shroomy
Posts:2172
|
| 03 Aug 2009 09:29 AM |
|
Thanks Jaskel, think this is a very good thread to let reno-bluries like me to learn more about renovation ! |
|
|
|
|
Bigfatfish
I'm a teenage Shroomy!
Posts:1191
|
| 03 Aug 2009 06:20 PM |
|
Jaskel power lah!!!!!!! all the way. think i must get u to supervise any carpentry work or maybe i get u to see my wood and see what we can do about it.
that means my turn to input something for myhometown soon about concrete and plastering and screeding. |
|
|
|
|
| You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
Active Forums 4.1
|
|
|
|